Podcast 10 mins
Better Being Series: Discover the ‘Blue Zones’ Where People Live LongerOn Aon’s Better Being Series: The World Wellbeing Movement
Rachel Fellowes, Aon Chief Wellbeing Officer, and guest Sarah Cunningham, Managing Director of the World Wellbeing Movement, discuss wellbeing strategies and company culture, the wellbeing workplace paradox and the work of the World Wellbeing Movement.
Key Takeaways
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Episode 64 discusses The importance of measuring four key dimensions of employee wellbeing.
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They also highlight the evidence that wellbeing has a positive impact on company performance.
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They touch on increasing the momentum surrounding wellbeing.
Intro:
Welcome to “On Aon,” an award-winning podcast featuring conversations between colleagues and their guests on, well,
Aon. This week, in part 6 of a special series on resilience called Better Being, we hear from Rachel Fellowes, Aon’s
Chief Wellbeing Officer, with her guest, Sarah Cunningham, as they talk about why wellbeing strategies and company
culture need to align, the wellbeing workplace paradox and the work of the World Wellbeing Movement.
Rachel Fellowes:
Hello. And welcome to Better Being, with me, Rachel Fellowes. I'm the Chief Wellbeing Officer here at Aon, and I'm
passionate about resilience in the workplace, and it's linked with performance and wellbeing. So today only around
30 percent of colleagues actually identify themselves as resilient, and this has huge implications both for their
mental and physical health as well as organizational productivity, agility, innovation and workforce engagement. So,
in this series I discuss what can be done about this issue with thought leaders and subject matter experts, and we
look at the actions we can all take to build and support resilience at the individual, team and organizational level
in the modern workplace. In this episode, I'm going to be talking about the importance of thinking through what
wellbeing at the organizational level means. I've had fascinating conversations on this podcast to date, and we've
talked methodically about wellbeing at the individual level and at the team level, and often talked about the
organizational level as if it's some bizarre construct.
So, I am so excited to then invite Sarah Cunningham to the podcast today to talk about wellbeing at the
organizational level. And why is Sarah so brilliantly placed to facilitate this conversation? Well, because Sarah is
an organizational leader, behavioral scientist, and a future work strategist. She's a bit of a superstar in my mind.
I've heard about her for a number of years and we crossed paths serendipitously about three months ago. And part of
how I heard of her was also linked to the fact she's Managing Director of the World Wellbeing Movement, and it's in
that capacity that she's standing or talking to me today in the podcast. So, Sarah, I'm going to invite you to share
a little bit more about yourself and the World Wellbeing Movement. But just before I go there, I just want to remind
everybody about Aon's own story. And I've been enrolled now for about 20 months, and we've been talking about moving
methodically from ill beings, so how do I best help our colleagues support each other and themselves when things go
wrong?
So, elements such as our global EAP service, and then starting to shift to something called wellbeing. So how do I
help educate our colleagues, our managers and our leaders as to what it means to help inform a culture of thriving?
And this third mysterious bucket, which links directly to our conversation is what we're talking through as human
sustainability. How do I enable organizations to support steps one and two, i.e. ill being and wellbeing? Now,
what's been phenomenal in the getting to know process with Sarah is the evidence-based research and interventions
that are funneling through the World Wellbeing Movement today.
So no longer is it a nice to have, very much this research is helping to inform the future success of organizations,
whether that be from a performance perspective or an engagement perspective. We'll come onto that detail in a lot
more shortly. So, Sarah, you can probably tell from the tone of my voice how excited I am to have you here. So
welcome to the show, and I'd love if you could just share with the listeners a little bit more about yourself and
your story before we dive into the World's Wellbeing Movement side of things.
Sarah Cunningham:
Well, Rachel, you are so kind. And I have to say I was very humbled listening to your kind words. I'm not sure I'm
deserving of that phrase at all. I am very much still on a learning journey. I'm learning every day. But I suppose
my background bridges both the corporate and academic world. So, I started out my career back in the 1990s. I was
working in call centers whilst also studying for my undergraduate degree. When I graduated, I moved into management
consultancy, and since then I became more senior, initially took on people leadership roles and made a ton of
mistakes because people are simply not given enough training when they first become a people manager. I've worked
for Google, I've worked for MasterCard, and I've worked up to site leadership level, so senior leadership level
where I've had overall accountability for employee wellbeing in a company, and that's something I took really
seriously.
I think there's two reasons I took it so seriously. The first is I observed over the course of a 25-year career that
the world of work was becoming a more stressful place, and that's not any one particular company, I'm talking at a
macro level. And I felt I had a duty, and I think it's partly because I have my own lived experience. So, when I go
back to those call center days, I suffered from debilitating panic attacks. That was in the 1990s when people really
didn't talk about mental health. It took a while, but I was lucky, and I got professional support. And anybody
listening who's struggling, the best advice I can say is to seek that professional support. But I guess,
fast-forward back to the later stages of my career, I definitely felt, I don't know, was it a calling or a very
strong sense of duty to play my part in supporting that.
And I got to work with some brilliant experts in employee wellbeing. I got to learn lots from them, but I realized
that nobody had all the answers. And so it was at that point that I turned to the academic world and I studied a
Master's degree in Psychological and Behavioral Science at LSE, and that was when I got introduced to Wellbeing
Science. And I confess up until that point, I probably hadn't thought of wellbeing as being a science. It is. You
can measure wellbeing, it is a science. And it was through that network that I encountered the two brilliant
co-founders of the World Wellbeing Movement, Professor Lord Richard Layard and Professor Jan-Emmanuel De Neve. Both
of them, two of the world's leading experts in wellbeing science. And I'm very grateful to them that they have put
their faith in a rookie like me to lead the World Wellbeing Movement, and I've been doing that for just coming up on
18 months now.
Rachel Fellowes:
Oh, Sarah. And I don't think there's any rookie in your adjective or descriptions that we should attribute at all.
But as I was listening to you, there was a really lovely picture growing almost like the traditional CV that you
were sharing with me, but then also the reality of the serendipitous notion of your life experience. And if I think
about how when I talk to clients, it's often those in really challenging roles such as call centers where you have
to try and dig deeper to understand organizationally, how can we help people in such high stress environment.
So, there were lots of wonderful things as I was listening to you and just thinking how serendipitous that your
story has taken that path and you've ended up here, and obviously a huge validation from the double professors that
we can call them. And I'd love to also just build on that last point and dive into more around the World Wellbeing
Movement. So could you describe it, I know you've just touched on it. What is it, what's its purpose and ultimately,
why has it brought you from Dublin to Oxford? Because I know there's been a big personal life change in that mix as
well.
Sarah Cunningham:
Well, there certainly has. So, the World Wellbeing Movement, it's a not-for-profit social impact organization housed
within the University of Oxford's Wellbeing Research Center. So that might start answering the question as to why it
brought me to Oxford. There is some incredible high-end academic research coming out of the University of Oxford's
Wellbeing Research Center. They are our academic partner. And I felt it was really important that I was close to the
research fellows so that I understood that research. So, I realized much as I'd like to, I couldn't do this role
from Dublin, but I haven't told you our mission yet. So, our aim is to improve the quality of people's lives across
the world by putting wellbeing at the heart of decision-making in both business and public policy. Now, our approach
is very much evidence-based. So, we're focusing hard on taking insights from the academic world and then actually
getting those into the hands of those people in society who are positioned to drive positive change, so business
leaders and policymakers for instance.
And that translation of academic insights into real world impact is such a core part of our operating model. And I
think that's part of the reason why that academic partnership with the University of Oxford is so important. But
that's not the only partnership that's important. We are a movement. So, our coalition of global wellbeing experts
from companies including BT, Cisco, HSBC, Indeed, EssenceMediacom, Unilever, S&P Global, the McKinsey Health
Institute. I know I've forgotten some, and I'm sorry if I've forgotten your one, but we're so grateful for that
collaboration and that coalition. We are a movement, movement by name, movement by nature. And I always say as the
old adage goes, that we are stronger than the sum of our parts.
Rachel Fellowes:
I mean, again, you can even sense in the pace of your voice and also the culture that you create when you engage
with people. It really feels like a community of energized people that are in this for the long game. We're not
flirting around the edges and doing tactical things. We're now looking at meaningful data that can drive change at
the systemic level, as you say. For me sitting in a Chief Wellbeing Officer level, I need your support. I get
challenges both internally and from clients around how do you actually really articulate the correlation with
engagement, performance productivity? And I lean on partners like you to help inform that narrative. And then vice
versa, we can be the incubator, the so what, so you have the data, you have the research, but how do we actually
action and create change on that? So, in your description, just laying a little bit of the Rachel-ness onto it, but
hopefully that's useful.
Sarah Cunningham:
Oh gosh, I couldn't agree more. It really works both ways. There's very little point doing academic research in a
silo. It really needs to be informed by on the ground insights for it to be relevant and effective.
Rachel Fellowes:
Yeah. Well, thank you. And I know that you are obviously in the world of data and science. I love the way you use
that word and almost encourage us to consider quantitative and qualitative components of wellbeing. I'm obviously
sitting in a data business. At Aon, we help our clients drive better decisions primarily through having access to
better data, whether that's be to inform their benefits or wellbeing more broadly. So, I'd love to get your view,
and I appreciate in our dress rehearsal as well, we also talked about Nic Marks and his view on measuring happiness.
But I also know there's a distinction between the way that you think about measuring this to inform organizational
change. And can we go there first and then we can build on some of the research pieces in the next couple of
questions after that?
Sarah Cunningham:
Absolutely. And look, I would certainly say that the way in which we recommend measuring workplace wellbeing is
informed by the way in which wellbeing science experts would measure wellbeing in the general population, so there's
definitely a very clear link there. But I suppose if I had a magic wand and if I could make one single change
tomorrow, it would be that every single employer globally not only measures how people are feeling using comparable
science-based metrics, but also measure why people feel the way they do. Because unless you understand why people
are feeling that way, you won't be able to put a targeted program of interventions in place to solve for that. So, I
might just very quickly go through that, starting with how people are feeling. At the World Wellbeing Movement, we
recommend measuring the four key dimensions of employee wellbeing. So that's job satisfaction, happiness at work,
stress at work and sense of purpose.
Now combined, those four questions provide us with a holistic picture of how people are feeling about the work they
do. And I think it is important to note that these are science-based. They mirror questions used by the OECD and the
UK's Office for National Statistics and various other statistical agencies to measure wellbeing in the general
population. But I did say that you shouldn't stop there because that's only telling you how people are feeling. It's
not giving you any information as to why people are feeling the way they are. And the reality is there are so many
factors that contribute to our wellbeing at work, and I don't think you'll ever get that down to a finite list, but
we certainly have a fairly comprehensive list that we recommend. So, these are the factors that drive your wellbeing
at work, so we call them the drivers.
And there are so many, from your pay to your working conditions, to whether you're getting support from your
manager, whether you feel a sense of inclusion and belonging, whether you feel appreciated and recognized for the
work you do, whether the work you do is energizing, whether you have flexibility, trust, scope to learn and grow.
There are so many drivers of our wellbeing at work. Now, we are diverse and as a result, different drivers will have
more or less impact on different people. But we recommend that employers measure those drivers. At a high level,
they'll be able to identify their poorest performing drivers, but they should also slice and dice to see how
different drivers are impacting different groups of people.
And that will give employers the data informed evidence they need to figure out which evidence-based interventions
they should be rolling out. And I think this is really important because I see a lot of very well-intentioned
business leaders, heads of wellbeing, heads of HR, site leads, really trying, but they don't know where to start.
And so, what we're saying is, instead of starting myopically with wellbeing, look beneath the surface of what drives
our wellbeing and target your interventions at those areas which are poorest performing.
Rachel Fellowes:
I don't want to use a naff analogy of a red flag, an amber flag, and a green flag, but in a way, you're using data
to determine where the biggest red flags are and how we can best support, again through evidence-based
interventions, those risks-
Sarah Cunningham:
Yeah, absolutely.
Rachel Fellowes:
Which I absolutely love. And I also love the fact you are bringing in the broad brush organizational drivers to use
your language, so even thinking about job satisfaction, career path through remuneration, this is very much at the
top level. And the way we've described it in the past around accountability is, Rachel's responsible for her
wellbeing. My manager would be responsible for the team environment, so reasonable conditions for me to thrive, but
my ultimate leader is responsible for the overall strategy around the notions, the drivers that you've just teed up
so brilliantly. So, I want to continue on that vein, and it's not to take us in a different direction, but I do want
to acknowledge the workplace wellbeing paradox that we're all currently experiencing.
So, there's an inflationary environment. There is huge sensitivities around cost at the moment. So, you listen to,
in the corporate world, anyone's, any public company's quarterly earnings call, there is a challenged environment
within which we're all working. We also know behind that that we are spending more on wellbeing, and I maybe
asterisk that, potentially ill being not actually wellbeing. And we can also see as we start to measure ill being
and now wellbeing, that those rates are declining, so there's a very peculiar predicament. So, either Sarah, there's
a condition that we're not measuring the right things or we're measuring new things that are giving us a more
pragmatic view on the challenges within which we now need to serve or we're actually spending on money in the wrong
place. And I'd love to just get your view on all of that, and I appreciate that it's quite an over-designed
question, but this is really the challenging position, and you often get in client conversations, you're between a
rock and a hard place, that type of statement. So, can we dig into that a little bit more please?
Sarah Cunningham:
Yeah. And gosh, every time I talk to you, Rachel, I just think how aligned we are in our thinking. So I gave a talk
actually earlier this year at the World Happiness Summit, which is the most incredible event I have to say. And I
talked about the workplace wellbeing paradox. And I guess, how I defined it at that point was exactly as you're
saying, we're seeing an increase in the investment in employee wellbeing by employers across the globe. And I
believe Aon actually did some research into that yourselves, that you could see increased spend. You can also see
that honestly simply by the number of jobs with the word wellbeing and the title like your own job, number of
publications, there's even awards now. So there's an awful lot of indicators that there is this increased spending.
Now, I'd agree with your asterisk, by the way, as to there's a question as to whether that's on wellbeing or ill
being, but I'll park the asterisk for now.
I guess, you would intuitively imagine that you would therefore see a decrease in the indicators of employee stress
and unhappiness, but that doesn't seem to be the case. So counterintuitively, we're actually seeing an increase in
those indicators of stress and unhappiness. So Gallup are telling us that employee stress has never been higher. The
McKinsey Health Institute tell us that employee burnout has never been higher. CIPD tells us that in the UK, one in
eight employees reports feeling miserable at work. And Deloitte have done some research which quantifies the cost of
mental health related absences in the UK alone to be about £46 billion a year to employers, so there's definitely
something going on here. Now, what I believe we're seeing is a fundamental disconnect between employers investment
in employee wellbeing, and employees actually experienced wellbeing. And I looked at that disconnect to try and
figure out, "Well, what's driving that?" And I know your question got to that.
One of the things that I always say is that you cannot treat wellbeing in isolation, and you'll hear me repeat this
like a mantra, but your wellbeing benefits have got to be aligned with your company culture. And I know that I'm
preaching to the choir here because all of the work you're doing on that front is absolutely incredible. But not
every company, of course, actually has the budget at this stage to hire such an experienced chief wellbeing officer,
and we are seeing those disconnects. And I think where those disconnects become very visible, and I think a lot of
your listeners will recognize these disconnects. So, if you've ever gone to a Wellness talk or walk, but in your
company, but the room is half or three quarters empty despite the fact that this is a really interesting speaker,
well, that's telling you something. That's telling you that people might want to go, but they're just too busy.
Their workload is unmanageable.
If you see a lot of yoga classes and mindfulness-based meditation classes and all of these great things, and again,
people are either not going at all or only going sporadically. If you see companies roll out all sorts of employee
assistance programs and talk about flexibility and diversity and inclusion, but actually the reality is that
employees are still receiving emails at 11:00 PM at night, at 2:00 AM in the morning on Saturday and Sunday, and
feel that pressure to respond, all of these, and there are so many more examples of a disconnect between wellbeing
benefits and company culture. And I think that's really a driving force of this paradox.
Rachel Fellowes:
I mean, this is fascinating, isn't it? So I guess, you're listening to it going, "Yeah, and oh yes. That particular
manager that sent me that email at 2 o'clock, thank you very much. I know what I would like to do with that." But
actually can we maybe start to think about what can be done about this? And I'm really interested in who's
accountable and responsible for this change. And just as a bit of context, we've trialed different approaches
depending on the theme or the topic at Aon. So we've got to the place now whereby diversity, equity, inclusion, and
we've also added on and belonging, which is wonderful, this is actually owned by our CEO. But track back a little
bit, we had a chief diversity officer, so think about the same sort of vein for ESG and obviously for wellbeing. So
this might be an incubation role for then another bounce for the topic of mental health, et cetera. But I'd love
your view on best practice and who do we actually want to hold accountability for this, bearing in mind we're a
traditional corporate structure.
Sarah Cunningham:
Absolutely. And plus one on belonging, and plus one on whoever has ownership for diversity, inclusion and belonging
reporting to the CEO. And I should say that they are key drivers of employee wellbeing, and the analysis conducted
by my Research colleagues at the University of Oxford really highlights that. But stepping back to your question,
I'm going to start first of all by saying that each and every one of us has got a responsibility, not an
accountability, but a responsibility. And by that just treating each other with kindness, just coming at a situation
with empathy, because the reality of work is that there will be many times where you are working with people who
have a different viewpoint. And I think if we can try to come at that situation with a lens of empathy and a lens of
kindness, and I say that as somebody who has let myself down many times and I'm on a learning journey and I continue
to learn, and I'm sure many listeners will feel the same, but when it comes to ultimate accountability, I agree with
you.
Ultimately the reality is that employee wellbeing is not just the right thing to do, there is a business imperative.
So there's a huge amount of research, and I can talk more about that, that demonstrates that companies that have
higher average employee wellbeing actually benefit from improved productivity, talent attraction and retention,
bottom line financial results, and even stock market performance, so it is a financial imperative. I firmly believe
that the CEO themselves should have accountability for employee wellbeing, and every company should have a chief
wellbeing officer who reports directly into the CEO. And I think this point is important, that role should be as
critical to any company as the CFO. Just to expand upon, I suppose one of those studies, just to give you an
example, and I don't want to go into too much detail, but my colleagues at the University of Oxford's Wellbeing
Research Center ran quite a long study with BT where they did a pulse survey to BT Call Center workers, which
obviously resonates with me as a former call center worker to ask them their happiness on a weekly basis.
They then did some very fancy analysis, which is far above my head, but they actually found the first causal field
evidence that a happier employee is a more productive employee. So for a one point increase in happiness on a scale
of one to 10, they saw a 12 percentincrease in productivity. So I definitely think that speaks to the business
imperative that wellbeing should not be seen as a luxury or a nice to have, or even just the right thing to do, even
though it is the right thing to do, but it really is a business imperative.
Rachel Fellowes:
I'm going to go a little bit off track at the moment and just play that back to you. So I, as in you, we can now
evidence that wellbeing has a positive effect on talent, on bottom line results, on stock market performance, on
individual performance and individual productivity, or indeed a team productivity rate such as a sales team or a
call center. What goes on in my mind, that feels like we've been trying to have that breakthrough research moment
that came to diversity where suddenly everybody accepts what we're trying to do, so right, we've got that.
What do you think is going on about why we haven't or are we actually gaining the same momentum as diversity because
it feels like we're, I like to call it the third child? ESG was first, then it was diversity and then it was
wellbeing. We're beautifully following, but I would love your view on that because this stuff is really powerful and
most of it has come out of post pandemic research. Now, we can get in now that there was such a 2020 crisis point
around mental health. People are opening the doors to enable you to do causal research, so would love your view on
that.
Sarah Cunningham:
There's two things I want to talk about. One is, it's very hard to take a positive from a time of global tragedy,
but people did start talking about mental health and about wellbeing, and the stigma, the taboo of discussing mental
health challenges was challenged during the period of the pandemic. One of the things which worries me is that as
the pandemic moves further and further into the past, so do those conversations. So I suppose my great hope is that
wellbeing is now elevated, but the reality is that... Now, I like to simplify things, so I'm going to simplify
something right down. But in a very simple world, there's two types of executive leaders. There's those leaders who
really want to make a difference. They really want to improve employee wellbeing, but they do not know where to
start. And that's where all the advice I've given is so important, measuring how people feel and why they feel that
way and then targeting interventions at those drivers.
But there's another type of business leader, and this is the more cynical business leader, and I am simplifying
here. But the reality is there are certain leaders, and I'm sure we can all think of some who are in the public eye
who really only care about the bottom line. And let's be honest, they don't really care that much about employee
wellbeing because they're so focused on their P&L. And I think that's why we've needed to do the research that has
been done. You asked me at the beginning of this why I moved from Dublin to Oxford for this job, and that's exactly
why. I wanted to sit side by side with the actual people who conducted the research so that I understand it at a
deep level. Very quickly and sticking with all script, but another research study they did, which is just so
compelling, is they looked at the top companies that are US stock listed on the Indeed Work Wellbeing Score.
So this is a very large survey of employee wellbeing that has been run by Indeed. And to date, they've had, I think
it's over 17 million responses at this stage. They looked at just those companies who are US stock listed, and then
they said, "Gosh, I wonder, imagine if you could comprise a stock portfolio, comprised of the happiest companies to
work at, what might that look like?" So they took the top 100 companies, they created this stock portfolio, and then
they let the market do their thing. And what was really interesting was if you look at the stock market for the past
three years, in 2021 it was going up. That was a bull market.
In 2022, it was going down, that was a bear market, and in 2023 it was volatile. Now, that fictitious portfolio
comprised of the happiest companies to work at outperformed the market in both the bull market that went up, the
bear market that went down and the volatility of 2023. So that's incredible research, which is highlighting that
even when it comes to your stock market performance, if you can improve your average employee wellbeing, you can
improve your stock market performance. Why is this important research? It's important so that we can get buy-in from
that second type of executive leader who is cynical and only caress about the bottom line.
Rachel Fellowes:
What's fascinating about that last comment is it proves the point that actually not being informed around happiness
as a manager is actually bad for business. You reduce the almost opportunity of what sustainable high performance
could actually translate to into your P&L, which I absolutely love. And it also reminds me of an experiment we're
doing internally at Aon at the moment. We're actually taking our, and this is the performance levers driven by our
financial performance, not personal, but we're taking a higher, a medium and a lower performing team and helping
embed the philosophy, including the data points of wellbeing to help them think about their 2024 plans. And I think
it's absolutely speaking to everything you are saying, and I love that degree of almost 1 percent ncrease could
equal 12 percentmore in terms of productivity and then what that translates to onto the bottom line. Fascinating.
I'm conscious of your time because I know what a busy lady that you're, and I'd love to just slowly start to wrap up
now and think through a parting thought of which no doubt there are many. And we also had the side conversation
earlier on, didn't we, Sarah around, could we have a whole separate podcast just on how does this data inform public
policy both in the US and the UK? And we also touched on some of my learnings from my North America tour even
thinking about the opioid crisis. Up to 57 percent of young female adults are now clinically depressed. There's an
extraordinary amount of post pandemic data that continues and is still expected in 2024 to spike again and translate
into higher EAP numbers by way of example. Building on all of that, it's like the grand drum roll. What would you
like to leave us with in this conversation that we can all reflect on?
Sarah Cunningham:
Well, as you've gone off script, I'm going to give I suppose two separate reflections. The first one is on workplace
wellbeing and the second is on wellbeing public policy. So I suppose when it comes to workplace wellbeing, my great
hope is that over the next five to 10 years, how employee wellbeing is viewed will have evolved. So, it really will
be viewed, as I said, as a critical part of any business strategy because it isn't a business imperative. And as I
say, a one point increase on a scale of one to 10 in happiness leads to a 12 percent increase in productivity. It's
very powerful. So, there is a strong business imperative. Every company should have a chief wellbeing officer
reporting into the CEO. And remember that it is a science, so employee wellbeing can and should be measured and not
just how, but also why, what's driving that wellbeing.
So, that's my recap of what I think is really important on the workplace wellbeing side of things. And you will find
more information on this on the World Wellbeing Movement's website. And over the coming months, we're going to be
publishing a lot more information on evidence-informed interventions that can be used to move the needle on those
drivers. Very quickly, because I know we're tight on time, you brought into it some very, very sad statistics, and
it makes my heart sink when I hear things like that. And there's so many statistics around this and the reality is
not everybody is in the workplace. It's really only people of working age, of course, who are employed. So how can
we affect systematic change at a macro level? And this is where the second part of the World Wellbeing Movement's
mission is to put wellbeing at the heart of decision-making in public policy.
So, if I really simplify that, we believe that every country should have a minister for wellbeing, should have a
budget for wellbeing, and should appraise any potential policy or look at any potential policy through the lens of
wellbeing. And if those changes were made, can you imagine the mammoth policy changes that that would drive both at
a prevention level and at a support level? And if that is something that people are more interested in, and I'm so
sorry to do a plug, but we have a podcast as well, not as long-running as yours, but it's called the Working on
Wellbeing Podcast by the World Wellbeing Movement. And I interviewed our co-founder, Professor Lord Richard Layard,
and he shared his views. He's an expert on Wellbeing Public Policy on why wellbeing should be the overarching goal
of governments across the world. So that's my final thought.
Rachel Fellowes:
Absolutely amazing. And we would be delighted to plug your podcast. As you said, this is all about being a movement
and supporting each other along the way. But I do want to end with a huge thank you, Sarah, because it's not only
your time to record the conversation, but also the time to get to know each other, and no doubt the time beyond this
conversation where we can partner better and also if your wonderful insights and lens that we definitely haven't
covered in our conversations to date. So, thank you so very much for being here.
Sarah Cunningham:
Oh, thank you so much for inviting me on. And thank you for all of the incredible work you're doing, Rachel and
everybody on your team as well.
Rachel Fellowes:
Thank you.
Outro:
This has been a conversation “On Aon” and workplace wellbeing today. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this
episode, you can get more insights on wellbeing in the workplace and information on future podcasts by following
Rachel Fellowes on LinkedIn. To learn more about Aon, its colleagues.
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Aon's Better Being Podcast
Our Better Being podcast series, hosted by Aon Chief Wellbeing Officer Rachel Fellowes, explores wellbeing strategies and resilience. This season we cover human sustainability, kindness in the workplace, how to measure wellbeing, managing grief and more.
Aon Insights Series UK
Expert Views on Today's Risk Capital and Human Capital Issues